No doubt comes with PLA backdoors and spyware built in for the home market (even assuming they haven't just added extra spy chips into the mainboard). You'd have to be a brave Western "enthusiast" to want one.
But then we've had that from Intel for many years, right? Just different three-letter agencies and their Israeli friends exploiting all those convenient baked-in flaws they are now belatedly having to fix...
Via's license is a bit tricky though, the license to x86 goes away if the company is sold to anyone. If intel wants to challenge this someday I don't doubt there is something sneaky going on with Via and it's ownership such that it's now got all these Chinese employee's etc. I'd be willing to bet there is some stealth transaction involved that has transferred Via to Chinese ownership and invalidated the x86 license.
I mean sure, if you want to invent conspiracy theories you can get there I suppose. Those are easy to imagine especially about foreigners. There is no evidence for such and Via has a thirty plus year history of being trustworthy.
Certainly, however, the patents for extended instruction sets (AVX, etc.) have not. There are also other patents that indirectly stop just 'anyone' from making an x86 CPU.
Keep in mind, it not the x86 part that is most concerning with government. It security encryption logic and such. Computer is more than x86 (or x86-64) microcode. It has other microcode for handling of encryption.
Funniest part of that article: “The safe haven of technology expertise and knowing how to build and operate fabs, the most complex manufacturing environments in the world, looks like it is fading fast.”
4 years later Intel is still basically on the same process node.
This is on topic, I send worst before - with flood messages about AMD in Intel announce. This is no relation to Intel but has a huge chance that AMD has made a serious trade issue with security with China.
this is just hstewart trying to make amd look bad.. like he always does... its nothing new.. maybe he should post proof of this fud against amd.. if he even has.. or can find it....
He used to work at Intel and no doubt has some Intel stock. So, he's both naturally biased and probably has a financial incentive to pump up the stock price and dump on their competitors.
he has denied that.. never worked there.. and doesnt own stock.. he wants amd to fail for who knows what reason.. and worships intel because they created x86...
This. The Chinese government is a human-rights absuing, totalitarian regime. The US government? People may not like Trump, but the USA is a damn-sight better than China. At least the NSA/FBI won't arrest you for having a different political opinion.
The US has been violating human rights the world over for centuries. We've staged dozens of coups in the last century, not to mention our disastrous involvements in Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Cambodia. Nicaragua, Chile, Iran, AUSTRALIA G'DAY MATE LETS THROW ANOTHER DEMOCRACY ON THE BARB! Dont kid yourself, The US is the ultimate hegemonic force, you either play by our rules or we go into your country and slaughter thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children(including 800 nuns that one time yiiiikes.) ((800 nuns lol jesus fucking christ.))
Not even close. The discussion's about the US and Chinese governments and their human rights abuses. When someone leaves half the information out, bringing it back in isn't "whataboutism".
this isn't even a tu quo que, it's someone directly refuting the notion of China being a humans rights abuser, and that the American government isn't, and then shows examples of America violating human rights... how on earth is this whataboutism... whataboutism is charging someone with hypocrisy because of their non-direct rebuttal/refutal of an argument
Unfortunately we're now facing a whole wave of people who have learned the names of logical fallacies from their favourite "centrist" sources, but don't know how any of them actually work.
Your sophisticated counterpoint serves only to distract from the original claims - not refute them. That's fine, if you want to live in a wold of the lowest-common-denominators, but not if countries are to be held to account for their shortcomings and misdeeds, in hopes of bring about course corrections.
Critiques of the USA and others should be evaluated on their merits, not on the basis of whether you can find other bad examples.
Are you sure about that? I have a very different political opinion, lived in China for 20+ years and never shied away from expressing it. I wonder why was I not arrested. According to you, I would have been in jail along with more than half of my friends, yet nothing happened.
Your only jailed if you were a threat. Obviously your not a threat. You either shared the PRC's views, or were too small to make any meaningful difference.
How about force move outs of homeless to Hawaii which is isolation camp? How about forced separating illegal emigrant families? What about border wall? I can continue with examples for days. USA has a longest history of human rights violations in the world and that's only domestically on foreign turns it's much worser. Chinese are not flowers but they can't beat that for sure.
China killed 30 to 50 million of its own people in the Great Leap Forward, followed by another 5 to 10 million in the Cultural Revolution. And they've been doing stuff like that for thousands of years. The An Lushan Rebellion in the 8th century AD killed as much as 5% of the entire world's population.
The USA never even bothered counting all the Native Americans and black slaves they killed. Deaths by avoidable poverty under capitalism are just "deaths", yet everything in China is counted and ascribed to the government. Don't even get started on the deaths directly caused by the USA worldwide due to the various (related) wars on "communism", "drugs", and then "terror"...
I'm not even out to defend the Chinese government here. They're atrocious, but by trying to play these numbers games all you're really doing is papering over how *both of the governments being discussed have terrible human rights records* - China just applies that domestically and the USA mostly prefers to do it abroad.
There's no numbers for the NA's / slaves, so we'll never know. And the war on communism (WW II and cold war) was needed. Or else the world would be very different today. (Hope you have blonde hair blue eyes, cause I do). The war on drugs is BS, but it's also because the real way to remedy it is not socially acceptable, people are too afraid to try things that will fix it because it will hurt them politically.
The war on Terror, was also BS, and aimed at the wrong country, most likely for oil, but still, it was a response to an attack on our country. And yes, this is a real war here. not like the war on drugs. So of course people are going to die in a real war. That's just what happens in war.
How about 99% of whole population of native Americans? Is that a number for you? The number of full and complete genocide. How about at least 80K of Nagasaky victims of which only around 200 ware soldiers? How about numbers massacres by US army in Vietnam? Did any communist country or Islamic one ever made war decision against USA? Nope it's always USA for greater good. Well guess what not even little kids believe in that.
Its astounding to see people defend Chinese atrocities. I wonder you guys know the meaning of Freedom or even an ounce of it.
USA allows people from other nation irrespective of their race and religion unless from the Terrorist harboring ones like Pakistan or the Jihad forces and extremist groups from Syria which torn that place apart (Yeah CIA propaganda on Basshar I know, but it is the war for power and military expansion). Chinese camp at Xinjiang is a living proof of that. Also supporting Pakistan and funding Afzal terrorists and others by supplying arms to them and buying countries like Africa and Srilanka to control in debt ?
And allows them to start a company by themselves without putting all bullshit rules like of Chinese by hampering the entire Nation's Internet. Or forcing the other nations corporations to bend to their rules. Look at the Apple many people clamor and fanboy them but they gave their prized privacy to Chinese, Guizhou Big Cloud and ban VPNs in China. Made Activision / Blizzard to censor everything.
American radical leftists with AntiFa agenda are worse too, WaPo propaganda articles and AOC bs coverage in pro format for CNN and co. But there is still information there to read and know about reality unlike Chinese.
They abuse basic Human rights and laws which are accepted world wide. And they are already destroying IP concept by mass cloning on Russian Tanks and saying they made improvements.
Yeah they pulled people out of poverty but at the expense of mass censorship and restricted world ?
And yeah which country is friendly when its a superpower ? None. The way how human mind is built upon and the fundamental nature of Food Chain and Survival of the Fittest show the genetic thought process.
People should not excuse Chinese on the pretext of one thing like US is bad and worse.
@Quantumz0d - I noted your piss-poor grammar and off-topic rant about "radical leftists", so I'm guessing you've been sent by HQ to astroturf some Q talking points. I really wish they'd give us a report function here.
On the off'chance you're a sincere human, here's a tip: Don't join a conversation at the end and lecture people for doing things *they did not do*. Nobody here was "defending China". We're pointing out the hypocrisy of people who attack China for human rights abuses and spying whilst thinking the USA is blameless. If that translates as a "defence" in your mind, so be it, but that' a comprehension issue.
Which of the two government were caught spying on the German chancellors mobile calls....? (Clue... it wasn't Huawei) The US is offended that the Chinese are doing what they have done for decade's.
The U.S. is probably worse about spying on other countries. But China is undeniably worse about spying on its own citizens and restricting their access to inconvenient sources of information.
Right our millions are merely incarcerated because they are descendants of slaves brought here by the ones who made the laws to imprison them. Or because they had weed one time. Ok, sure, US prisons arent as bad as actual concentration camps, but they're pretty god damn awful. Oh not to mention the actual nightmare concentration camps we've been murdering refugees in. Refugees of states set up and knocked down by the CIA.
You can make everything negative and sound like shit. Because everyone in every country does shitty things. But then your just an old, jaded person who wishes they didn't exist.
Every single country does these things, none of them are different.
haghands: You have a valid point, but the real issue here is that calling out China's massive human rights abuses is not a reason to do a whatabout on the US or anyone else. I am fully capable of condemning both without pretending they are equivilent in all ways.
What China is doing is horrible and should be opposed. I also believe that not protesting the prison-industrial complex, refugee concentration camps and an economy built on slavery and genocide here in the US is a loss of moral high ground.
@Reflex - agreed entirely here, but the conversation started because people were alleging that these products would be worse than US products "because China". Pointing out US spying activities wasn't whataboutism in that context, but man did it blow up from there...
I try to avoid direct comparisons, but having spent time in both countries it's difficult to consider US activities as remotely comparable. US targets are significantly different than Chinese (which are basically every Chinese person, cradle to grave, temporally and geographically) vs targetted intelligence on the US side (often too broad, but not nearly on the same scale).
Again, this isn't a moral statement per say, but direct comparisons and the impact of these efforts are just on wildly different scales.
I mean the current corona virus quarantine is being enforced by state control into WeChat via Tencent which is now digitally quarantining citizens by removing their ability to do transactions outside of narrowly defined geographies. If something like that happened here there would be riots.
The fact is that at some point any nation state to this point in history has inevitably become corrupted by the concentration of money and power into the hands of its elite. No state is innocent, the only way that this can meaningfully be changed(to my understanding at least) is through an internationalist revolution of the working class. But god damn is that gonna be hard to pull off, easier than ever before in history thanks to the internet, but still a massive organizational challenge and one that will necessitate a tremendous amount of hard hard work and bloodshed.
Won't change anything. You just end up with elites, who were originally working class or from working class families. Which is what we have today. It'll just loop around.
Incorrect, the people in power will stay in power through the revolution, and solidify their control forever. Capitalism allows for people to change classes, millionaires come and go all the time. Communism makes the party immortal.
Good question. Many likely didn't exist in the first place. Falun Gong, while not deserving of the oppression they got, are also a leading source of misinformation and propaganda here in the USA. The Epoch Times is a Falun Gong front and has been banned from advertising on FB and other platforms for inventing and spreading large amounts of misinformation including building an AI system to make fake accounts and spread this misinformation. Shen Yun 'traditional Chinese dance troupe' is another Falun Gong front.
I'm against the PRC government, but I am still wary that just because others are also does not mean they are being honest or allies. FG is a cult, and at times a dangerous one.
Even if it’s comparable to a 7th gen Core i3 that’s adequate for most desktop tasks, and faster than most previous gen (pre-Ryzen) AMD CPU’s so this is kind of surprising considering they’ve only been at this for a few years...
I had a computer with the Cyrix 6x86 166+ back in the mid 90s. That was a fast CPU back then and until FPU games were common place, you couldn't tell the difference between it and the Intel CPU.
I suspect Ian will be checking Ali Express/etc on a semi-regular basis for one of these to show up; which doesn't mean he wouldn't rather be sampled hardware and have a contact at the company to ask questions of if possible.
Impossible. Zhaoxin ZX-E (2018) is [000307B1] => CentaurHauls Family 7, Model 59, Stepping 1 VIA CNS (2019) is [00040671] => CentaurHauls Family 6, Model 71, Stepping 1
Both are derived from CNR, but that's it. CNR → ZX-C → ZX-C+ → ZX-D → ZX-E CNR → CNS
ZX-E has Chrome 960 (C-960) iGPU. It is basically a close derivative of the Chrome 600 series, well-known from the VIA VX11(PH) chipset. Anyway, it has nothing to do with NCORE.
Overlooking the seemingly mandatory gripes about human rights and communism that typically pervade any article that has something to do with China, I'm rather interested in and looking forward to a possible sale of these processors in the United States just to mess around with one of these processors.
It'd be a toy and nothing more. I don't have a practical use for one of these processors and I highly doubt I would find one even if I could acquire one.
> integrated DirectX 11.1-capable graphics (possibly S3 based but unknown) Not unknown. It is the Chrome 960 GPU, or rather C-960, since VIA sold S3G to HTC and no longer has rights to the Chrome brand. It is basically a close derivative of the Chrome 600 series, well-known from the VIA VX11(PH) chipset. List of GPUs used by Zhaoxin: - Chrome 640 (C-640) iGPU & Chrome 645 (C-645) iGPU from the VX11/VX11H/VX11PH chipset - Vendor Id: 1106 ("VIA Technologies, Inc."), Device Id: 3a01 ("VX11 Graphics [Chrome 645/640]") - Chrome 320 (C-320) iGPU from the ZX-100S chipset - Vendor Id: 1d17 ("Zhaoxin"), Device Id: 3a02 ("ZX-100 C-320 GPU") - Chrome 860 (C-860) iGPU from the ZX-D/KX-5000/KH-20000 (codename "WuDaoKou") SoC - Vendor Id: 1d17 ("Zhaoxin"), Device Id: 3a03 ("ZX-D C-860 GPU") - Chrome 960 (C-960) iGPU from the ZX-E/KX-6000/KH-30000 (codename "LuJiaZui") SoC - Vendor Id: 1d17 ("Zhaoxin"), Device Id: 3a04 ("ZX-E C-960 GPU") - Chrome iGPU from the ZX-F/KX-7000/KH-40000 SoC
Does it have any boost clock or platform specific support :
'Zhaoxin’s KaiXian KX-6780A is an eight-core x86-64 processor with 8 MB of L2 cache, a dual-channel DDR4-3200 memory controller, modern I/O interfaces (PCIe, SATA, USB, etc.), and integrated DirectX 11.1-capable graphics (possibly S3 based but unknown). '
I am not sure if this has been asked. But how are they making 86_64 chips without Amd approval? Or did they also made a deal with Amd and Intel at the same time?
AMD cross licensed with them years ago. Also, and I could be wrong, but I believe x86-64 is freely available, albeit the underlying x86 instruction set is not.
VIA has a license, and designed the core in partnership with the Shanghai Municipal Government. The actual design is possibly based on a Centaur CPU (a US-based subsidiary of VIA), to some degree.
I believe this has nothing to do with AMD or their cross-licensing agreement of EPYC.with (I forget exactly who).
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99 Comments
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asmian - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
No doubt comes with PLA backdoors and spyware built in for the home market (even assuming they haven't just added extra spy chips into the mainboard). You'd have to be a brave Western "enthusiast" to want one.But then we've had that from Intel for many years, right? Just different three-letter agencies and their Israeli friends exploiting all those convenient baked-in flaws they are now belatedly having to fix...
yannigr2 - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Probably not as many backdoors ans security holes as those integrated in US hardware to be used from US agencies.flyingpants265 - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Literally exactly correctHStewart - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
I am curious why nobody connected AMD x86 cpu deal with China and trade issues and now this one. Did AMD seriously break the law?https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelkanellos/2016/...
Reflex - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
No, why do you ask? There is no indication AMD broke any laws or sanctions.Also, Via is a longstanding x86 chipmaker that has a full license and has made compatible chips since the 90's. No relationship to AMD.
rahvin - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Via's license is a bit tricky though, the license to x86 goes away if the company is sold to anyone. If intel wants to challenge this someday I don't doubt there is something sneaky going on with Via and it's ownership such that it's now got all these Chinese employee's etc. I'd be willing to bet there is some stealth transaction involved that has transferred Via to Chinese ownership and invalidated the x86 license.Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
I mean sure, if you want to invent conspiracy theories you can get there I suppose. Those are easy to imagine especially about foreigners. There is no evidence for such and Via has a thirty plus year history of being trustworthy.coburn_c - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
The x86_64 patent expires next year, anyone will be free to make them.smayonak - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
If that patent is set to expire, I wonder why TransMeta processors/project Denver was never released as a standalone CPU.Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
The performance was never really there, so they needed to compete on price, which wasn't possible due to volume.quadibloc - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
True, but if you want to play games, you need the latest patented generation of SSE as well.Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
I mean, sure but you'd be releasing a CPU that is literally two decades behind given that lots of improvements since have been patented....eek2121 - Sunday, February 2, 2020 - link
Certainly, however, the patents for extended instruction sets (AVX, etc.) have not. There are also other patents that indirectly stop just 'anyone' from making an x86 CPU.HStewart - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Keep in mind, it not the x86 part that is most concerning with government. It security encryption logic and such. Computer is more than x86 (or x86-64) microcode. It has other microcode for handling of encryption.RedGreenBlue - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
No. The Forbes article and Wall Street Journal article were written by people ignorant of computer science and AMD’s chip roadmap at the time. Once in a while journalists try to do things they know nothing about. Kind of like when The Verge thought they knew how to build a gaming PC. 😁https://wccftech.com/no-amd-did-not-sell-keys-king...
https://www.extremetech.com/computing/294372-amd-d...
RedGreenBlue - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Funniest part of that article: “The safe haven of technology expertise and knowing how to build and operate fabs, the most complex manufacturing environments in the world, looks like it is fading fast.”4 years later Intel is still basically on the same process node.
Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Thanks, HStewart, for reliably taking this off-topic to your favourite punching bag.Try not to swing, miss and hit yourself in the face again this time...
HStewart - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
This is on topic, I send worst before - with flood messages about AMD in Intel announce. This is no relation to Intel but has a huge chance that AMD has made a serious trade issue with security with China.lmcd - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
On-topic FUD is still FUDMBarton - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
Seriously, call your senator and get to the bottom of this.Korguz - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
this is just hstewart trying to make amd look bad.. like he always does... its nothing new.. maybe he should post proof of this fud against amd.. if he even has.. or can find it....Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
An article that has nothing to do with AMD he somehow makes about AMD. Nutty fanboy he is.Korguz - Sunday, February 2, 2020 - link
yep.. you see his posts about the new hires amd just did ??Reflex - Sunday, February 2, 2020 - link
I try not to read his stuff, it's pointless trolling.Korguz - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
maybe... but damn funny as hell has he tries to make his beloved intel look good.. with no proof or anything..mode_13h - Tuesday, February 4, 2020 - link
He used to work at Intel and no doubt has some Intel stock. So, he's both naturally biased and probably has a financial incentive to pump up the stock price and dump on their competitors.Korguz - Tuesday, February 4, 2020 - link
he has denied that.. never worked there.. and doesnt own stock.. he wants amd to fail for who knows what reason.. and worships intel because they created x86...Reflex - Tuesday, February 4, 2020 - link
Based on the technical content of his posts, if he ever worked at Intel it was in a very non-technical role.MBarton - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
Maybe you should call your senator.Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Nailed it.The rampant hypocrisy from casual pro-US commentators on this particular topic (international espionage) is getting very old.
Alistair - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
yeah let's not even pretend the Chinese and U.S. governments are comparable (speaking as someone happy to have left China)AshlayW - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
This. The Chinese government is a human-rights absuing, totalitarian regime. The US government? People may not like Trump, but the USA is a damn-sight better than China. At least the NSA/FBI won't arrest you for having a different political opinion.haghands - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
The US has been violating human rights the world over for centuries. We've staged dozens of coups in the last century, not to mention our disastrous involvements in Syria, Yemen, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and Cambodia. Nicaragua, Chile, Iran, AUSTRALIA G'DAY MATE LETS THROW ANOTHER DEMOCRACY ON THE BARB! Dont kid yourself, The US is the ultimate hegemonic force, you either play by our rules or we go into your country and slaughter thousands upon thousands of men, women, and children(including 800 nuns that one time yiiiikes.) ((800 nuns lol jesus fucking christ.))TheinsanegamerN - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Whataboutism at its finest right here.Notmyusualid - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
absolutely.levizx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Yep, except when it's what about China, then you shut up.Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Not even close. The discussion's about the US and Chinese governments and their human rights abuses. When someone leaves half the information out, bringing it back in isn't "whataboutism".obama gaming - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
this isn't even a tu quo que, it's someone directly refuting the notion of China being a humans rights abuser, and that the American government isn't, and then shows examples of America violating human rights... how on earth is this whataboutism... whataboutism is charging someone with hypocrisy because of their non-direct rebuttal/refutal of an argumentSpunjji - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
Unfortunately we're now facing a whole wave of people who have learned the names of logical fallacies from their favourite "centrist" sources, but don't know how any of them actually work.mode_13h - Tuesday, February 4, 2020 - link
Your sophisticated counterpoint serves only to distract from the original claims - not refute them. That's fine, if you want to live in a wold of the lowest-common-denominators, but not if countries are to be held to account for their shortcomings and misdeeds, in hopes of bring about course corrections.Critiques of the USA and others should be evaluated on their merits, not on the basis of whether you can find other bad examples.
PixyMisa - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Australia. Right. Whatever you say.mrobin604 - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Yeah, because that's CBP's jobhttps://thehill.com/latino/434670-reporters-lawyer...
levizx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Are you sure about that? I have a very different political opinion, lived in China for 20+ years and never shied away from expressing it. I wonder why was I not arrested. According to you, I would have been in jail along with more than half of my friends, yet nothing happened.Fataliity - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Your only jailed if you were a threat. Obviously your not a threat. You either shared the PRC's views, or were too small to make any meaningful difference.ZolaIII - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
How about force move outs of homeless to Hawaii which is isolation camp? How about forced separating illegal emigrant families? What about border wall? I can continue with examples for days. USA has a longest history of human rights violations in the world and that's only domestically on foreign turns it's much worser. Chinese are not flowers but they can't beat that for sure.PixyMisa - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
China killed 30 to 50 million of its own people in the Great Leap Forward, followed by another 5 to 10 million in the Cultural Revolution. And they've been doing stuff like that for thousands of years. The An Lushan Rebellion in the 8th century AD killed as much as 5% of the entire world's population.Nobody beats the Chinese at that game.
Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
The USA never even bothered counting all the Native Americans and black slaves they killed. Deaths by avoidable poverty under capitalism are just "deaths", yet everything in China is counted and ascribed to the government. Don't even get started on the deaths directly caused by the USA worldwide due to the various (related) wars on "communism", "drugs", and then "terror"...I'm not even out to defend the Chinese government here. They're atrocious, but by trying to play these numbers games all you're really doing is papering over how *both of the governments being discussed have terrible human rights records* - China just applies that domestically and the USA mostly prefers to do it abroad.
Fataliity - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
There's no numbers for the NA's / slaves, so we'll never know. And the war on communism (WW II and cold war) was needed. Or else the world would be very different today. (Hope you have blonde hair blue eyes, cause I do). The war on drugs is BS, but it's also because the real way to remedy it is not socially acceptable, people are too afraid to try things that will fix it because it will hurt them politically.The war on Terror, was also BS, and aimed at the wrong country, most likely for oil, but still, it was a response to an attack on our country. And yes, this is a real war here. not like the war on drugs. So of course people are going to die in a real war. That's just what happens in war.
ZolaIII - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
How about 99% of whole population of native Americans? Is that a number for you? The number of full and complete genocide. How about at least 80K of Nagasaky victims of which only around 200 ware soldiers? How about numbers massacres by US army in Vietnam? Did any communist country or Islamic one ever made war decision against USA? Nope it's always USA for greater good. Well guess what not even little kids believe in that.Quantumz0d - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Its astounding to see people defend Chinese atrocities. I wonder you guys know the meaning of Freedom or even an ounce of it.USA allows people from other nation irrespective of their race and religion unless from the Terrorist harboring ones like Pakistan or the Jihad forces and extremist groups from Syria which torn that place apart (Yeah CIA propaganda on Basshar I know, but it is the war for power and military expansion). Chinese camp at Xinjiang is a living proof of that. Also supporting Pakistan and funding Afzal terrorists and others by supplying arms to them and buying countries like Africa and Srilanka to control in debt ?
And allows them to start a company by themselves without putting all bullshit rules like of Chinese by hampering the entire Nation's Internet. Or forcing the other nations corporations to bend to their rules. Look at the Apple many people clamor and fanboy them but they gave their prized privacy to Chinese, Guizhou Big Cloud and ban VPNs in China. Made Activision / Blizzard to censor everything.
American radical leftists with AntiFa agenda are worse too, WaPo propaganda articles and AOC bs coverage in pro format for CNN and co. But there is still information there to read and know about reality unlike Chinese.
They abuse basic Human rights and laws which are accepted world wide. And they are already destroying IP concept by mass cloning on Russian Tanks and saying they made improvements.
Yeah they pulled people out of poverty but at the expense of mass censorship and restricted world ?
And yeah which country is friendly when its a superpower ? None. The way how human mind is built upon and the fundamental nature of Food Chain and Survival of the Fittest show the genetic thought process.
People should not excuse Chinese on the pretext of one thing like US is bad and worse.
Spunjji - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
@Quantumz0d - I noted your piss-poor grammar and off-topic rant about "radical leftists", so I'm guessing you've been sent by HQ to astroturf some Q talking points. I really wish they'd give us a report function here.On the off'chance you're a sincere human, here's a tip:
Don't join a conversation at the end and lecture people for doing things *they did not do*. Nobody here was "defending China". We're pointing out the hypocrisy of people who attack China for human rights abuses and spying whilst thinking the USA is blameless. If that translates as a "defence" in your mind, so be it, but that' a comprehension issue.
Fataliity - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Yeah but the U.S. isn't doing that to their citizens, only those it perceives not to be.Whether they are or aren't is another discussion.
Hermit21 - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Which of the two government were caught spying on the German chancellors mobile calls....? (Clue... it wasn't Huawei) The US is offended that the Chinese are doing what they have done for decade's.Nagorak - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
The U.S. is probably worse about spying on other countries. But China is undeniably worse about spying on its own citizens and restricting their access to inconvenient sources of information.haghands - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Very accurate.levizx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
And they never said otherwise. The US government is no better in terms of privacy violation, and they lie about it.Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Agreed.rahvin - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Which of two has concentration camps incarcerating millions of people simply because they aren't Han Chinese?haghands - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Right our millions are merely incarcerated because they are descendants of slaves brought here by the ones who made the laws to imprison them. Or because they had weed one time. Ok, sure, US prisons arent as bad as actual concentration camps, but they're pretty god damn awful. Oh not to mention the actual nightmare concentration camps we've been murdering refugees in. Refugees of states set up and knocked down by the CIA.haghands - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
wooops meant to say descendants of slaves who were imprisoned by the descendants of the people who brought the slaves here. You get it yeah?Fataliity - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
You can make everything negative and sound like shit. Because everyone in every country does shitty things. But then your just an old, jaded person who wishes they didn't exist.Every single country does these things, none of them are different.
Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
haghands: You have a valid point, but the real issue here is that calling out China's massive human rights abuses is not a reason to do a whatabout on the US or anyone else. I am fully capable of condemning both without pretending they are equivilent in all ways.What China is doing is horrible and should be opposed. I also believe that not protesting the prison-industrial complex, refugee concentration camps and an economy built on slavery and genocide here in the US is a loss of moral high ground.
Spunjji - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
@Reflex - agreed entirely here, but the conversation started because people were alleging that these products would be worse than US products "because China". Pointing out US spying activities wasn't whataboutism in that context, but man did it blow up from there...Reflex - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
I try to avoid direct comparisons, but having spent time in both countries it's difficult to consider US activities as remotely comparable. US targets are significantly different than Chinese (which are basically every Chinese person, cradle to grave, temporally and geographically) vs targetted intelligence on the US side (often too broad, but not nearly on the same scale).Again, this isn't a moral statement per say, but direct comparisons and the impact of these efforts are just on wildly different scales.
I mean the current corona virus quarantine is being enforced by state control into WeChat via Tencent which is now digitally quarantining citizens by removing their ability to do transactions outside of narrowly defined geographies. If something like that happened here there would be riots.
haghands - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
The fact is that at some point any nation state to this point in history has inevitably become corrupted by the concentration of money and power into the hands of its elite. No state is innocent, the only way that this can meaningfully be changed(to my understanding at least) is through an internationalist revolution of the working class. But god damn is that gonna be hard to pull off, easier than ever before in history thanks to the internet, but still a massive organizational challenge and one that will necessitate a tremendous amount of hard hard work and bloodshed.khanikun - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Won't change anything. You just end up with elites, who were originally working class or from working class families. Which is what we have today. It'll just loop around.coburn_c - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Incorrect, the people in power will stay in power through the revolution, and solidify their control forever. Capitalism allows for people to change classes, millionaires come and go all the time. Communism makes the party immortal.Notmyusualid - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Where are the missing Falun Gong?Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
Good question. Many likely didn't exist in the first place. Falun Gong, while not deserving of the oppression they got, are also a leading source of misinformation and propaganda here in the USA. The Epoch Times is a Falun Gong front and has been banned from advertising on FB and other platforms for inventing and spreading large amounts of misinformation including building an AI system to make fake accounts and spread this misinformation. Shen Yun 'traditional Chinese dance troupe' is another Falun Gong front.I'm against the PRC government, but I am still wary that just because others are also does not mean they are being honest or allies. FG is a cult, and at times a dangerous one.
levizx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Of course not, at least the Chinese government is somewhat upfront about eavesdropping.dan122 - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
100% correct!Samus - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Even if it’s comparable to a 7th gen Core i3 that’s adequate for most desktop tasks, and faster than most previous gen (pre-Ryzen) AMD CPU’s so this is kind of surprising considering they’ve only been at this for a few years...Bulat Ziganshin - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
VIA bought two x86 companies back in 90sReflex - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Yup, and they were the first to go all in on low power CPU's, for a while they were the ones to beat in the mini-PC segment.RaduR - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Cyrix that at the time were faster than Intel . Except their FPU that was weak and eventually lead to filure.But the CPU was fast , very fast at the time
schujj07 - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
I had a computer with the Cyrix 6x86 166+ back in the mid 90s. That was a fast CPU back then and until FPU games were common place, you couldn't tell the difference between it and the Intel CPU.mode_13h - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
Ironically, I had a 386 with a Cyrix math coprocessor (back when they were separate physical chips). It was allegedly like 10x as fast a genuine 387.yeeeeman - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Anton, regarding your request for them to contact you, I think you should try and send them a mail or buy it from China to test.DanNeely - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
I suspect Ian will be checking Ali Express/etc on a semi-regular basis for one of these to show up; which doesn't mean he wouldn't rather be sampled hardware and have a contact at the company to ask questions of if possible.DanNeely - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Sadly it seems the one Ian's found is too expensive.https://twitter.com/IanCutress/status/122288137864...
mode_13h - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
He should put up a gofundme page.If he's lucky, his kit might even arrive with corona virus included, at no extra charge.
defaultluser - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
It's probbly based on their CHA, just reusing the "AI procesor" qs a GPU.https://www.semiaccurate.com/2019/11/18/centaurs-n...
https://centtech.com/wp-content/uploads/MPR_19_12_...
scx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Impossible.Zhaoxin ZX-E (2018) is [000307B1] => CentaurHauls Family 7, Model 59, Stepping 1
VIA CNS (2019) is [00040671] => CentaurHauls Family 6, Model 71, Stepping 1
Both are derived from CNR, but that's it.
CNR → ZX-C → ZX-C+ → ZX-D → ZX-E
CNR → CNS
ZX-E has Chrome 960 (C-960) iGPU. It is basically a close derivative of the Chrome 600 series, well-known from the VIA VX11(PH) chipset.
Anyway, it has nothing to do with NCORE.
PeachNCream - Wednesday, January 29, 2020 - link
Overlooking the seemingly mandatory gripes about human rights and communism that typically pervade any article that has something to do with China, I'm rather interested in and looking forward to a possible sale of these processors in the United States just to mess around with one of these processors.mode_13h - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
Why? In my opinion ARM, POWER, and RISC V cores are all more interesting than this x86 copycat.PeachNCream - Friday, January 31, 2020 - link
It'd be a toy and nothing more. I don't have a practical use for one of these processors and I highly doubt I would find one even if I could acquire one.Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
Why not just get the equivalent Via CPU?PeachNCream - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
Toys don't need to be practical.Reflex - Monday, February 3, 2020 - link
Fair nuff..scx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
> integrated DirectX 11.1-capable graphics (possibly S3 based but unknown)Not unknown. It is the Chrome 960 GPU, or rather C-960, since VIA sold S3G to HTC and no longer has rights to the Chrome brand.
It is basically a close derivative of the Chrome 600 series, well-known from the VIA VX11(PH) chipset.
List of GPUs used by Zhaoxin:
- Chrome 640 (C-640) iGPU & Chrome 645 (C-645) iGPU from the VX11/VX11H/VX11PH chipset - Vendor Id: 1106 ("VIA Technologies, Inc."), Device Id: 3a01 ("VX11 Graphics [Chrome 645/640]")
- Chrome 320 (C-320) iGPU from the ZX-100S chipset - Vendor Id: 1d17 ("Zhaoxin"), Device Id: 3a02 ("ZX-100 C-320 GPU")
- Chrome 860 (C-860) iGPU from the ZX-D/KX-5000/KH-20000 (codename "WuDaoKou") SoC - Vendor Id: 1d17 ("Zhaoxin"), Device Id: 3a03 ("ZX-D C-860 GPU")
- Chrome 960 (C-960) iGPU from the ZX-E/KX-6000/KH-30000 (codename "LuJiaZui") SoC - Vendor Id: 1d17 ("Zhaoxin"), Device Id: 3a04 ("ZX-E C-960 GPU")
- Chrome iGPU from the ZX-F/KX-7000/KH-40000 SoC
Spunjji - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Thanks for the info!carcakes - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Does it have any boost clock or platform specific support :'Zhaoxin’s KaiXian KX-6780A is an eight-core x86-64 processor with 8 MB of L2 cache, a dual-channel DDR4-3200 memory controller, modern I/O interfaces (PCIe, SATA, USB, etc.), and integrated DirectX 11.1-capable graphics (possibly S3 based but unknown). '
Arnulf - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
Why is this being manufactured at TSMC using 16 nm node when SMIC is supposedly producing 14nm FinFET chips at volume?I woudl imagine China wants to keep everything "in house", to become more self-sufficient?
scx - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
This CPU family (ZX-E - KaiXian KX-6000) dates from the end of 2018They already have a new generation (ZX-F - KaiXian KX-7000) produced in TSMC 7 nm.
Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
TSMC is also Taiwan based, not PRC based.voicequal - Thursday, January 30, 2020 - link
This looks one step above junk, but I do like the BGA form factor. Always looking for low cost x86 SBCs.nicamarvin - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
I am not sure if this has been asked. But how are they making 86_64 chips without Amd approval? Or did they also made a deal with Amd and Intel at the same time?Reflex - Saturday, February 1, 2020 - link
AMD cross licensed with them years ago. Also, and I could be wrong, but I believe x86-64 is freely available, albeit the underlying x86 instruction set is not.mode_13h - Tuesday, February 4, 2020 - link
VIA has a license, and designed the core in partnership with the Shanghai Municipal Government. The actual design is possibly based on a Centaur CPU (a US-based subsidiary of VIA), to some degree.I believe this has nothing to do with AMD or their cross-licensing agreement of EPYC.with (I forget exactly who).